Main Waste line backing up

[jmoss]

My Main waste system is backing up into the toilet and shower downstairs in the basement. A plumber has come out for this very issue twice within the past year and a half.

Each time, the plumber has snaked (sp) out the waste line as far as he could go which resolved the backup problems temporarily.

This is the third time and I do not want to pay a $300 bill for a third time.

What would the problem be? I searched through the forums for Main Waste system, Plumbing Backup, etc. and could not find anything on my poblem.

Looking at my main waste pipe, it seems to be iron or whatever was used back in the day. At least I know it is not the plastic pipe that they use today.

I am thinking that it may be a problem with the waste line going out to the public waste system. Is it possible that the old (30 years) iron pipe has corroded to the point that roots were able to infiltrate the inside and causing a block? There is a tree that is in the area of the puplic access hole for the waste system.

How would I go about resolving this?
Is it legal for me to go get a snake and snake out the pipe from the public access hole?
Would this be my first plan of attack?

-or-

Should I get the town to come out and paint all of the lines in my front yard and start digging the length of the pipe to see/get any roots or whatever out of the line? If I find that there is indeed a corroded section of pipe when I dig it up, is there some type of patch that I can put in there or will I have to get a section of the pipe replaced?

Ohhh, so many questions... hehe. I just want to avoid another $300 payout only to see the issue return in another 6 months or so.

Thanks so much for any help you can give me to resolve this!

[DIY Guy]

It is impossible to know for sure what the problem is without looking down the pipes. Some plumbing companies now operate a camera that they run down the pipe to see what is going on.

Your plumber cleared the way before, so he apparently got to the problem. He should have been able to tell if there were tree roots.

So I'd say it is more likey either a sludgey build-up that doesn't flow out and doesn't respond well to snakes, or you have a high friction pipe. That friction may be because of excessively bends or flexes in the run, or it could be snags from fragments of metal or plastic that catch passing material.

A small snag can catch toilet paper, that then slows down flow, which then traps feminie products or just more toilet paper until you have a complete blockage. A snake will clear it out just fine, but it will build-up again fairly quickly.

If it is a sludgey build-up, then you need to force the sludge out with pressure. I like to use a special rubber bag which you connect the hose to. You run the bag as far down the pipe as you can get it and turn on the water. The bag inflates and wedges itself in place. The water pressure then forces out the sludge. These things are marvelous for this kind of problem.

[jmoss]

**UPDATE**
Thanks for clueing me in to the snake camera thing... Although it cost me $600 for the plumbers to come out and do it. (Think I got took)

Well, anyway, they snaked the sewage line first and then put the camera down there. Once we got down to about 7 feet of pipe, it started getting ugly...

Not in the way of being disgusting ugly, but in the way of seeing $ signs add up in my head...

Let me tell you, after 7 foot of running, the camera started burying itself in WATER! It finally came out of the water at around 30 foot of the length of the pipe and found a broken up root (from the previous snaking). The water was soo deep in places that it actually filled the whole pipe it seemed.

So... The diagnosis is that the pipe is bowed... AND there are roots growing in it...

$4,800 is the verdict from the plumbing company. At that point, my eyes must have bugged out of my eye ball sockets as the lady telling me had to ask me if I was alright. (Got a baby on the way in 2 months, I can't spend that much money)

So, I say my goodbyes after telling them that they could get started on it tomorrow & stuff, even though I couldn't afford it (I could scrape it together, but, I'm having a NEW ADDITION to the family soon).

Anyway, I call em up later that day and tell them that I want an estimate of the bill itemized. This way, I can get some of the stuff done by myself and bring down the price. Plumber calls me back after two hours and says... NO. hehe. Oh, well, had to tell him, thanks for his business and not to start work on my pipe.

Sooooo.... I called the County and they are going to paint the utility/sewer lines either tonight or tomorrow morning. After that, I'm getting the good ole shovel and axe out of the shed and digging the trench myself.

Once finished digging, I'm gonna buy the materials and TRY to replace it myself.

Any helpful hints from anyone on the materials needed, etc., etc.?

[DIY Guy]

Check with your county and/or city to find out if you are allowed to make the repair yourself (you probably are) and also if you need a permit.

$4,800 is a lot of money. I can't say if it is fair or not.

If you are replacing a straight run, that is all in your yard, then it is a fairly straightforward job.
1. You can dig, rent a trenching tool or hire day laborers.
2. You'll have to cut the tree roots, you may need a chain saw, depending upon the size. There is probably a product out there to discourage tree roots from approaching the pipes, but I don't klnow anything about that.
3. You'll probably use ABS pipe in your replacement. It can be easily joined to old plastic or metal pipe. I'm not sure about joining to ceramic pipe. Make sure to take extra care to remove any burrs when you cut the pipe.
4. You'll need to make the trench flat and with the appropriate slope. You don't want more bowing and you want proper flow.
5. The great thing is, the city will send out an inspector to tell you if you did it right and what corrections need to be made. You might talk to them first for any tips they have to offer. Around here, they go out of their way to be helpful.

THIS IS NOT A COMPLETE LIST, and I am not a plumber. They are informed tips, and there are more considerations I may not have covered.

You might hire a small plumbing outfit (like Joe or Bob) to come out and just put the finishing touches on your work. Hire him on an hourly basis, making it clear you are just bringing him out for 1 to 2 hours of work.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if you could do this project for $500-$1,000.