Maytag Fridge not cooling

[kentk1]

I have a Maytag MSD2754GRW that I cannot get below 40 degrees on the fridge side. I have done the following:
Replaced the defrost timer
Replaced the defrost heater assembly (therm included I believe)
I have defrosted the freezer coils as they were iced up a bit.
And the bone headed thing I did without really knowing was I turned an adjusting screw on the cold control that controls the damper I believe. On the outside of the adj screw hole, there are letters INCR with an arrow. I interpret this as "turn this way to INCREASE cold air flow". Is this correct?
any help is much appreciated.
Oh, and the freezer side is working fine btw.
thanks, Kent

[RegUS_PatOff]

What's the Freezer Temperature ?

Is the Evaporator Fan and Condenser Fan running ? (when the Compressor runs)

What's the frost pattern on the Evaporator look like (picture) ?

[Dan O.]

On the outside of the adj screw hole, there are letters INCR with an arrow. I interpret this as "turn this way to INCREASE cold air flow". Is this correct? Probably but it is not meant to be tampered with by novices (and often not by technicians either).

I cannot get below 40 degrees on the fridge side. How are you measuring that temperature?

What is important is actual food temperature. The proper way to measure that is to put a container of water on a middle shelf and then measure that water temperature after 12 or so hours.

Is the damper door open or closed at the time it isn't keeping cold enough temperature?

I have defrosted the freezer coils as they were iced up a bit. Clear "ice" or white, snow-like "frost"? it is an important distinction in refrigerator repair.

What's the frost pattern on the Evaporator look like (picture) ? Yes. Frosting should be uniform across its whole surface. An actual picture of what's there might help.

What's the freezer temperature? That's another thing that might be helpful to know but the actual food temperature in the freezer.

Also;

Did you check and/or clean the condenser?

Is the condenser fan motor running whenever the compressor is?

Is the evaporator (freezer) fan motor running at least whenever the compressor is?


Dan O.
www.Appliance411.com
The Appliance Information Site (http://www.appliance411.com/parts/?ref411=Maytag+Fridge)
=D~~~~~~

[kentk1]

The freezer temperature is -8



Yes, the evaporative fan and the compressor fan are working.



The frost pattern is not uniform. The last time I defrosted it (last Friday), it had clear ice in many areas and the area between the fins were iced up.



I am using a regular outdoor thermometer. I will try placing a glass of water in the fridge and put the thermometer in it. but I have been using that all along and have used as a bench mark so to speak.



Last time I had the control panel off (last Friday), I check the damper door and it was open.



It seems just to get progressively warmer, not cold one day and warm the next.



I have cleanced the condenser and compressor area, a little dirty, but not too bad.



This is what I did last Friday- I pulled the freezer back panel and observed the coils iced up as before. In the fridge, I removed the panel that holds the controls, timer, etc. I manually sequenced the timer until it clicked one time. I noticed the heater element getting very hot, so I know the timer is talking to the defrost heater. I do not believe the condenser fan stopped during this test. I did not let it finish out the cycle, but after I saw the heater was working, I sequenced the timer until the next click and the heater did not turn on after that. At this point, satisfied the timer was talking to the heater, I powered down and defrosted the freezer and put everything back together and powered her up again. So the last couple of days she has been running at about 38-40 degrees, but afraid she may creep up again soon.

Its almost as if maybe it is defrosting while trying to cool down if that makes any sense?

So suspecting the cold control at this point? Possible? Thats the only other piece of the puzzle, correct?



BTW, this Maytag was included in the recall where a relay that turns the compressor on and off was replaced. I called the repair shop that replaced the relay and they indicated the recall part would have no effect regarding this issue...thoughts?



Also, thank you so much for the help, it is much appreciated!!

[RegUS_PatOff]

[QUOTE=kentk1]The frost pattern is not uniform.... it had clear ice in many areas and the area between the fins were iced up... [/QUOTE]Don't lose that Spring when checking the Damper Door

Does the Compressor run "forever" ?

It should be about 1 hour ON, then 1 hour OFF.

The frost pattern should be uniform, a light frosty pattern.
Clear ice is not good (sealed system leak ?)

The Compressor, Condenser Fan, and the Evaporator Fan (all wired together),
should stop during Defrost (function of the Defrost Timer)

Is the Return-Air Flap (bottom left wall in Fridge) working or froze ...

Maytag Fridge Bulletin (http://www.servicematters.com/maytag_library/docs/TDR-0010A-B.pdf)

I used Clear Duct Tape on my vents MSD2756AEW

[kentk1]

Too late on the spring for the damper, the spring shot out when I was checking, but successfully replaced back and working now

No, the compressor does turn off from time to time, will have to check the every other hour part though.

Yes,I understand about the ice. Will monitor.

I have a blue see through plastic cover on the return below, seems fine, not froze up

so far, running still at 40 degrees....will continue to monitor

Does the cold control, timer and defrost heater and thermostat all work in tandem? I cold control is the only component I have not replaced..so wondering...from the pictures, it looks like it has electrical connections so was wondering about working together with the timer, etc.

thanks again for the help, much appreciated.

[kentk1]

Speaking of the defrost timer, I purchased and replaced original one with a universal timer ( has extra wire for continuous run versus not), but not real confident about it. The instruction said to place the extra wire on the number 1 terminal of the timer, which I did, but like I said, not real confident it was working. Last time I defrosted, I put the original back in and performed my test by turning the timer until it clicked. then the defrost heater turned on, so I believe the timer istalking to the heater just fine...just monitoring right now

[RegUS_PatOff]

Yes, the Black Wire goes to Terminal #1

The temperature of the Freezer tells the Cold Control to turn on the Compressor (unless the Defrost Timer is in a Defrost Cycle).

About every 8 hours, the Defrost Timer kicks in and disconnects the Compressor (and both Fans) and then connects the Defrost Heater
for up to 25 minutes.

Unplug Fridge and use a hair-dryer to completely defrost the Evaporator Coils to start fresh.

Then check the frost pattern on the Evaporator Coils after about an hour of Compressor run time.

[kentk1]

OK, thank you.....it appears the temperature of the fridge is creeping upward again. I will defrost again as you recommend and check the coils after an hour or so. Will take a picture as well. Any ideas you have in the meantime are appreciated.
thanks again.

[kentk1]

Here are some pics prior to defrosting. This is only after 5 days

[kentk1]

Here is a pic after compressor running for approx 1 hour. Any input is appreciated..thanks

[Dan O.]

The refrigerant lines leading to/from the evaporator should not frost up like that. The frosting should be limited to the aluminum evaporator only. My guess is you may have a refrigeration system problem.

... and no, changing the relay (like was done during the recall) could not cause that.

Poor air flow across the evaporator might cause excessive frosting, eventually spreading even to the refrigerant line leading from the evaporator back to the compressor. I can't think of anything else that would if the defrost system is functioning.

JMO

Dan O.
www.Appliance411.com
The Appliance Information Site (http://www.appliance411.com/parts/?ref411=Maytag+Fridge)
=D~~~~~~

[Dan O.]

In that last picture are ALL the loops of the evaporator frosted about the same or are some not frosted at all?

Dan O.

[kentk1]

Yes, all are frosted about the same after about an hour. I can check today and send another picture if you like which would be about 24 hours after the manual defrost.
Of course the fridge was about 37 degrees this morning on middle setting, but afaid will progressively ice up again.
Maybe time to call in the professionals to examine the system?

[Dan O.]

all are frosted about the same after about an hour. That is good, it reduces the likelihood of a sealed system malfunction. So maybe an air flow problem or it not defrosting properly is the cause of the excessive frosting?

Has anyone inspected the door seals to make sure they are not letting in warm air while running? That could also cause excessive frosting of the evaporator coil.

Maybe time to call in the professionals to examine the system? If you do, don't defrost it before hand. They'll need to see it in its failed state and defrosting it will get rid of some the evidence. ;)

JMO

Dan O.
www.Appliance411.com
The Appliance Information Site (http://www.appliance411.com/parts/?ref411=Maytag+Fridge)
=D~~~~~~

[kentk1]

I wiped down the seals with a damp cloth last night and did not see any signs of tearing or the like.And since it seems to ice up quickly (5 days or so), seems an issue with the door seal would or should be apparent, maybe not though.
You mention not defrosting properly...just not sure what else I can check. If I defrost manually and have replaced the defrost timer and the defrost heater and thermostat, ensured the damper is open (since it cools just great after defrost), I am perplexed as to what could be causing the issue. The only component I have not replaced or checked is the cold control. could it be causing the system defrost cycle to be "out of sync" so to speak?
thanks again for the tips
Kent

[Dan O.]

did not see any signs of tearing or the like [of the seals] They don't have to show any visible wear to be not sealing. A simple (although not absolute) test of their sealing ability is to close the door on a dollar bill and see how easily it can be removed with the door still closed. If it can be pulled (or falls) out without any friction, the gasket is likely not sealing at that location. Repeat around the whole perimeter of the door.

I have not replaced or checked is the cold control. could it be causing the system defrost cycle to be "out of sync" so to speak? No. All it does is cycle the compressor and fans on and off while the defrost timer is not in defrost mode.

LINK > How does a frost free refrigerator's defrost system work? (http://www.appliance411.com/links/jump.cgi?ID=658)

JFYI

Dan O.
www.Appliance411.com
The Appliance Information Site (http://www.appliance411.com/parts/?ref411=Maytag+Fridge)
=D~~~~~~

[kentk1]

Thanks, I performed the dollar bill test and I believe we are good there. I actually went to Appliance 411 and read about the pages, so sorry, I asked the question too soon. I believe there is more frost on the two main sets of coils closest to the back wall then on the front. Does that seem normal to you?
Here is a picture of the coils after 24 hours.

[Dan O.]

I believe there is more frost on the two main sets of coils closest to the back wall then on the front. Does that seem normal to you? It could be normal depending on the air flow across it.

Usually if there was a refrigeration system problem some of the passes of the evaporator would have no frost at all while others might have more than expected.

As near as I can tell from here your pictures might show a relatively normal frost pattern.

JMO

Dan O.
www.Appliance411.com
The Appliance Information Site (http://www.appliance411.com/parts/?ref411=Maytag+Fridge)
=D~~~~~~

[kentk1]

Well, I had a technician out yesterday and he says the damper is not opening and closing as it should. All of the information I have read only state to see if the damper is open and does not get into specifics on when it should be open and when it should be shut. So awaiting an estimate...

[RegUS_PatOff]

The Compressor is controlled by the Temperature of the Freezer.

If the Freezer temperature is -8F, the Compressor (and Evaporator Fan) should turn OFF.

The Fridge tempearure is controlled by the (non-electric) themally operated Damper Door... (and the air-flow by the Evaporator Fan, if running)

[kentk1]

Well, the technician replaced the damper assembly and the coils are still icing up. I had him out again last Thursday and he advanced the timer until it clicked once, but the fan and compressor did not turn off immediately (should it?). I had a new timer I had purchased, so he replaced the orginal timer with this new one (univeral one/black wire to #1 terminal). It seems that it is going to exhibit the same issue as before as the temp in the fridge is beginning to rise again. I fear the tech does not know what else to do as he states he cannot find out anything wrong with the system. Anyone have any other ideas? My next step is to maybe have one of his peers come out and take a look

[RegUS_PatOff]

[QUOTE=kentk1] ... the coils are still icing up.... [/QUOTE]
evenly frosted... not clogged ... no clear ice ...

Compressor runs 50% (1 hour ON, 1 hour OFF) ?

[kentk1]

The majority of the ice seems to be near the return from the fridge and the ice gets pretty solid top to bottom in and on the coils, basically on the right side of the coils if looking in from the front. Not clear ice, just frosted up.
Yes, the compressor seems to turn off every hour or so, not sure for how long, but then turns back on again. I have not timed it exactly, perhaps I need to. Many times when walking by I will notice the compressor and evap fan are not running, then next time I happen to walk by, it is.

[kentk1]

Have another set of eyes coming out this morning to diagnose the issue. Cross your fingers
thanks for everyones help

[kentk1]

Replaced the univeral timer with OEM part. Monitoring for now.

[kentk1]

Well, up to 50 degrees this morning..grrrr...another call to the repair shop...the fridge is not going to win!

[RegUS_PatOff]

[QUOTE=kentk1]The majority of the ice seems to be near the return from the fridge and the ice gets pretty solid top to bottom in and on the coils, basically on the right side of the coils if looking in from the front. Not clear ice, just frosted up....[/QUOTE]? ? ? picture ?

[kentk1]

Well, way back in the beginning of this saga, I indicated a shop had come out and replaced the compressor relay due to the Maytag recall in April. The technician who came out yesterday and after calling TechLine, indicated the relay rework was wired incorrectly, causing the compressor to run during the defrost process, so, another relay was installed and yet again, we are monitoring to see if this is the answer. BTW, I called the shop who installed the relay rework and they indicated incorrect wiring of the relay would have resulted in a compressor burning out, but not in allowing the compressor to run through the defrost cycle.

[RegUS_PatOff]

Are you talking about the Compressor Relay or the replacement Defrost Timer & wiring ?

[kentk1]

Sorry, the compressor relay

[RegUS_PatOff]

[QUOTE=kentk1]... The technician who came out yesterday and after calling TechLine, indicated the relay rework was wired incorrectly, causing the compressor to run during the defrost process...[/QUOTE]No matter how the Compressor & Relay are wired, it can't run during Defrost,
that's a function of the Defrost Timer (unless maybe the Defrost Timer was wired wrong)

[Dan O.]

No matter how the Compressor & Relay are wired, it can't run during Defrost
That is very true. It is the timer that switches power to the compressor circuit during cooling model only. No matter how the replay was wired it couldn't cause the compressor to run unless the timer was switching power to its circuit.

The timer being miswired *might* be responsible for such a condition but not the relay.

JFYI

Dan O.
www.Appliance411.com
The Appliance Information Site (http://www.appliance411.com/parts/?ref411=Maytag+Fridge)
=D~~~~~~

[kentk1]

Well, its been almost a week since a new relay was installed and the fridge is working just fine and running at 37 degrees with both freezer and fridge controls set at mid settings. I even pulled the back panel off the freezer to check for any ice build up and found nice even frost across all coils.
The tech who installed the new relay said a 2 pin relay was installed by the company who installed the relay on the Maytag recall, and that he replaced the 2 pin relay with a 3 pin. In addition to stating the wiring was incorrect (whether correct or not), he also noted the wires were pinched by the plastic cover that goes over the top of the relay. As far as the timer possibly being at fault, they installed an OEM timer just prior to replacing the relay and I was still icing up. Once the relay was replaced, the fridge began to maintain a cool fridge and not ice up the coils.
Thanks for everyones input, it is/was much appreciated.